Monday, June 09, 2008

counterfeit revival...or the movement of God?

I first caught wind of what's now being called the "Lakeland Revival" just a few weeks ago, while reading about the death of Steven Curtis Chapman's little girl, Maria. If you haven't heard of this movement yet, here's a few news stories on it (here, here, and here) as well as the Wikipedia entry and the official site. Anyway, the aforementioned story appeared in the Orlando Sentinel the morning after Maria's accident. Like most news outlets, the Sentinel allows user comments to encourage discussion. What caught my attention in this forum was a posting from someone claiming to be with the revival who all but called the Chapmans out for not bringing Maria's body to Lakeland so she could be raised from the dead, as something like 20 people had been. Now, obviously this caused quite a stir and immediately my hyperbole antenna was in alert mode. So, like any good researcher in the 21st century would do, I "Googled" it up and had pages of information at my fingertips. And here I am.

Let me say at this point that I grew up in a staunch Southern Baptist church so 1) I have not had much experience with or been witness to much "charasmatic" activity and 2) what little I know about things like this I tend to automatically dismiss, simply because it seems, yes, weird, and I'm fairly uncomfortable with it. That being said, however, as I grow older I'm trying to grow wiser and, therefore, I am much more open to God's moving in unusual ways in my life or other's. After all, who am I to question God, or the way He speaks?

So, in an effort to understand this type of thing further, I'll ask the following questions. I hope someone with more experience in this area can give me an honest answer to these, and don't take my questioning this as questioning God. I truly want to know.

For the record, though...I, at the very least, do NOT believe people have been raised from the dead as Bentley claims. If 21 people had been prayed back into existence, not only SHOULD there be medical proof, but there WOULD be verifiable reports world-wide. There's a great blog that talks about this, and questions the claim that a girl was raised after being dead 2 days,
here.

Anyway, here are my questions:

1. Why, in order to "receive" a blessing from the Holy Spirit (Who we all, as Christ-followers, have the same access to), is it necessary to travel to a particular location--Lakeland, Florida, for example--and have one person--Todd Bentley, in this case--impart this blessing upon us?
2. If this is a true revival of God, why is there not a much-more concentrated effort on repentance, and bringing people to Christ's saving grace? The times I've watched there has really not been one mention of the Gospel. Instead, the main focus seems to be physical healing. I understand that God uses the supernatural to bring people into a relationship with Him (see Paul), but what about those who do NOT experience this and still accept Christ, as I would guess the great majority of Christians do?
3. If there really is physical healing and, yes, even raising the dead going on here, where's the proof? I get it that we are supposed to have faith, but, let's face it, if there is verifiable proof of something, shouldn't we be itching to share this? And shouldn't we, as Christ-followers, be demanding it, lest we be called liars?

I suppose, looking back at all I've written, that I've probably made up my mind on this already. To be honest, I think I know the answers. But I would appreciate someone else's slant on it. Having heard the comments of friends who don't know the Lord, I believe that "movements" like this only serve to further separate the world from God's love. So, for better or for worse, there's my take on this. But, in the interest of seeking to further understand how God truly speaks to us and because, well, I just typed a bunch of stuff I don't want to go to waste...I'm keepin' it.

Opinions, please!

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hey Tripp,

I'm not even sure why I stopped by to read your musings... maybe it's divine intervention...lol!!!

well where to start....I guess I should tell you that being the good 'baptist' that I was raised to be, I had much of the mind set that you do...from the time I can remember my mom had us in church and taught us the Bible- she made sure to inform us that although every aspect of the Bible is true that certain things...(i.e. miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit) were only for a certain time period and then were done away with. I didn't question my mom's teaching and since we went to a church that taught the same there was no reason to think otherwise!

Right after the time that I met you so many things happened that I promised myself never to discuss with anyone since I thought myself half crazy for it any way.... more on this later....I preluded with that to make this statement... I answer your questions from a pure heart whose life has been touched and changed and not in an effort to change or sway your beliefs in anyway....


1. Why, in order to "receive" a blessing from the Holy Spirit (Who we all, as Christ-followers, have the same access to), is it necessary to travel to a particular location--Lakeland, Florida, for example--and have one person--Todd Bentley, in this case--impart this blessing upon us?

~You DON'T!!!!! Granted that when God uses someone and there is an annointing on someone (ie the way there was on John the Baptist)the situation lends itself for miracles; however, it is not the person or place that performs the miracle rather it's God's power! So, you don't have to go there for this to happen....just like you don't have to go to the mechanic to have your car fixed- you can do it yourself as long as you are willing to do the work required to get it done!!!!


2. If this is a true revival of God, why is there not a much-more concentrated effort on repentance, and bringing people to Christ's saving grace?

~I would argue with you that unless your research has included actually attending a service and seeing for yourself ALL that truly takes place during these meetings that you cannot make the assumption that this is not happening. Just like any news story only the most controversial and/or amazing things are pointed out so it would be a diservice to you and your research to accept that as fact.

~on a side note to this... I do not know much about Lakeland specifically; however, I have seen what has been labeled as 'charismatic revivals' and I assure you there are many more out there not just Lakeland and these are not reported on because the lives being transformed aren't news worthy!


The times I've watched there has really not been one mention of the Gospel. Instead, the main focus seems to be physical healing.

~Again, I would reference my above point about actually being there. I work at my church and part of my job is putting together programs for the TV show and you would not believe how much is edited out and cut from a show!!! I know it looks seamless but I assure you it's not.

I understand that God uses the supernatural to bring people into a relationship with Him (see Paul), but what about those who do NOT experience this and still accept Christ, as I would guess the great majority of Christians do?

~ The best way I heard this explained was by my dad... if I buy a brand new car and you buy the same exact car we are both able to use the vehicle in the same exact manner because we both have all the same things available to us. However, if you decide to use your a/c and I roll the windows down... you turn the radio on and I hum... you go fast and I barely go the speed limit... two things will happen.... first you will be way more 'comfortable' than I will and two you'll probably get a lot further than I will in the same amount of time. Would it be fair for me to question or even get mad at my car because I'm hot and wind blown and didn't get to hear great music? Anyone would think I was crazy for asking such a thing, right??? The truth is it was my choice and my doing that made all that occur. I had the same things available to me that you did I just didn't use them. That is exactly what it's like with the supernatural state. Jesus said in John 14:12:

12“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

~It is not a Christian's lack of ability to do it but rather their choice.

3. If there really is physical healing and, yes, even raising the dead going on here, where's the proof?

~Well if you'd like to go with me to Santa Cruz, Bolivia I can introduce you to my grandmother and you will have living proof! However, if that is not possible I can get her doctor's phone number and you can speak with him in Miami.... unfortunately, because of her weak state following this miracle and how delicate her heart was she was not able to be submitted to the rounds and rounds of tests that would be required to document it! Three doctors and 8 nurses got saved because of the miracle they witnessed...


I get it that we are supposed to have faith, but, let's face it, if there is verifiable proof of something, shouldn't we be itching to share this?

~ I concur, itching is one word for it... you want to tell the whole world about God's great power and His amazing love and grace to even hear your prayers, but sadly after years of having people question you and put you under the microscope and even get offended at what you are sharing... you learn to be cautious with whom you share stuff. The thing is that you don't want to come across as someone who is trying to shove 'emotionalism' down Christians throats...b/c that is generally what all miracles/displays of God's power are labled as!

And shouldn't we, as Christ-followers, be demanding it, lest we be called liars?

~ WOW...that would be a refreshing thing, a sure way to make sure REVIVAL breaks out world-wide...but we'd have to do away with all the 'religious baggage' that we carry around...don't know to many Christians willing to do that.

~I leave you with this... if you'd like to hear stories that can give you a more honest look at the works of the Holy Spirit from a personal outlook, without being worried that I'm trying to "CONVERT" you...let me know, I'll be GLAD to share! =) I have, however, learned that there are AMAZING WONDERFUL Christians that choose to ride with the windows down and don't want to know anything about an a/c and God loves them, blesses them and cares for them just like he does for all the ones that want the a/c!!! It's about loving your brothers and sisters in Christ not about having everyone agree with what I belief!

~One last thougth....Hebrews 13:8.... and now I have a question for you....why shouldn't I expect miracles, signs and wonders???

~Karin

Tripp Walton said...

Thanks for the comment, Karin! Good stuff, and I appreciate your heart.

I definitely see what you're saying. Let me just add a couple of things real quick:

I'm not, in any way, doubting that God not only can, but does still do miracles such as physical healing and even raising people from the dead. I guess what I'm after here is whether this particular revival is actually legitimate. It seems, to me at least, a bit fake and self-serving. And there are definitely some questions being raised (many in the Christian community, by the way) about whether this is all an act. It's easy to get swept up in the emotions and drama of something like this, but, as I've said, there are things happening in this particular ministry that just don't seem right to me. And I don't think it's wrong to question it. IF it's from God, it WILL stand. It's worth noting that there have been "movements" like this that have NOT stood the test of time, by the way. To me, something like this can do far more harm to the cause of Christ than good. So, there's my motive. Again, not questioning God's power. He has been, can, and still is, doing what He wants, when He wants, HOW He wants, regardless of little old me. And that's a good thing.

I just think we need to be on the lookout for "sheep in wolves' clothing". And that goes especially for those who say they're sheep! :)

Anonymous said...

LOL!!!!
Gotcha!

Anonymous said...

and the final verdict is Counterfeit revival totally I was a part of ministeries very closely related to Todd Bently and the like that ministered in Lakeland, more demonic in nature than the gifts of the Holy Spirit, this movement almost totaly destroyed my life